Feelings and Phonemes: Are SLPs Trained to Counsel?

Emily:
[0:16] Hi, everyone. It's Emily.

Eva:
[0:18] And this is Eva.

Emily:
[0:19] And you're listening to Speech Talk,

Eva:
[0:21] Where you research book clubs so you can do evidence-based practice in practice.

Emily:
[0:25] So let's get talking. Eva, tell me, how goes it? What's up? What's new?

Eva:
[0:32] Honestly, not at all clinically related, but as you know, but our listeners don't. I have an e-bike, and I've really been working on biking my kids to school and sometimes biking to work. And I don't know if this is crazy to anyone, but I feel really good when I exercise. I was like, wow, my physical and mental health is doing real well with some regular exercise. So I don't know. Consider biking to work if you can, folks.

Emily:
[1:05] And it's good for the environment.

Eva:
[1:08] Yeah, except for like lithium batteries. It never feels like there's a good choice out there for the environment, you know?

Emily:
[1:15] It was funny because I worked with this person who was very, like, pro-red. And if you know me at all, I'm very pro-blue, like, as liberal as liberal gets. And they were like, oh, yeah, well, those batteries, they are terrible for the environment. And I'm like, not as bad as Trump.

Eva:
[1:40] When you were first like, they're really pro-red. And I was like, like the color, like I just didn't even register. I was so confused. What happened for you this week? What's going on, Ems?

Emily:
[1:55] This week, I have been stalking our pages and things. And I am so excited to tell everyone that we have surpassed 3,000 listens. Yay.

Eva:
[2:09] Oh, my goodness. That is so exciting.

Emily:
[2:12] It's so amazing. So I just wanted to say like a big thank you to everybody who is listening and a request. I am so curious why you guys choose the episodes you choose. What could we be doing better? What do we suck at? Tell me. I want to know. I want some feedback. We want to know some more topics that maybe you guys would like to hear. So drop us some comments. Our email is in the show link. So anything you got to say, we are here to listen. And I do respond. Eva responds too. It's not just me.

Eva:
[2:50] Yeah. No, honestly, Emily is on top of everything. And you can always send us a message on Instagram. You know, slide into those DMs. I'm married. Don't slide into my DMs. That sounds inappropriate.

Emily:
[3:05] Okay, Eva, tell me, how did you choose this week's topic?

Eva:
[3:09] Well, I honestly can't remember if I inadvertently referenced this on another podcast episode. So sorry if y'all are hearing the story again. But I had had a session with a patient, and they just obviously did not seem like they were doing so hot. And I referred to neuropsych and I got a message back, that was like we're not sure how this came up in your session like please don't do counseling stuff and of course in my most professional voice I said thank you so much for your feedback, I appreciate knowing more about when to refer and scope of practice. And in my head, I was like, I'm allowed to do counseling. We have counseling in our degree. And then I started really thinking about it. And even though, yes, counseling is technically part of the eight pillars of, what makes speech therapy speech therapy, honestly, I feel super underprepared anytime emotional things happen. Like, I think I have my coping mechanisms, but I just want to know, how is everybody else feeling about it?

Emily:
[4:26] Yeah, it's a good topic because it is hard and heavy topics are heavy. And I would be a little taken back if someone told me that I shouldn't be talking to people or counseling people within a speech therapy session if something came up and we were talking about it. Yeah. Off script, I'm going to need to know more about this story.

Eva:
[4:53] Let's get into it. Are SLPs qualified to be counselors? Because, you know, if you've worked with adults with aphasia, for example, for more than a week, you already know the hardest part is not, like, actual speech strategies. It's when your patient starts crying mid-session and you realize nobody actually taught you what to do.

Emily:
[5:14] Right. And so today we're looking at two comparison studies, both out of the University of Wisconsin, that basically ask, how prepared are SLPs really to handle the counseling side of aphasia care? And short answer, or spoiler, not very. But hey, I mean, that could always change, maybe.

Eva:
[5:38] Um right so we took counseling in grad school, and I remember the professor was great professor Caggiano and it was I think really helpful because, the only counseling skills I have I got out of that class, um doing a lot of active listening reflecting and not telling people what to do, with their feelings or trying to tell them not to have feelings or what do they call it like toxic positivity you know like that there because it's like oh no you're doing great you shouldn't be sad you should be happy.

Emily:
[6:18] Yeah and that is the worst it's what like you know that you should be happy you're and i always feel bad too when people are like i know i should be grateful i'm alive i see other people in the gym and i get it like i could be that but it sucks and i'm like yeah dude you know his bad and your bad are different bad but that doesn't make that your bad any less bad because somebody else has a worse your immediate comparison.

Eva:
[6:49] I'm going to really try to get a clip of you saying that for our social media, because that was a great explanation. Because his bed and your bed are different beds. Anyways, Emily, has a patient like genuinely ever caught you off guard emotionally? Were you like, I don't know what to do next?

Emily:
[7:09] I have had some situations that needed counseling or needed adjusting outside of my scope of practice. And I think in those situations, I kind of like go statue and I'm like, not me. Gotta go.

Eva:
[7:24] You're like, if I don't move, they won't see me. And they'll be saying it to somebody else.

Emily:
[7:31] They will know that I cannot handle this. There was one time I had a patient, and they went in to talk to me about how the kids that they were watching were being abused. And I was like, stop. Oh, gosh. No, this is immediately called, you know, CPS and all the things. And they're like, well, what are the names? I was like, I don't know. I just, I called you. You come here. I don't know what to do.

Eva:
[8:02] Somebody else, please deal with this. Yeah, man. And I had a patient who, in our session recently, we were reviewing, I'm not laughing because it was ha-ha funny, it was just like, like I asked you, like it just straight up caught me off guard. And we're going over stroke risks, and one of the risk factors is family history. So we're like, okay, what's your age? Do you have a history of heart conditions? Do you have a family history? The implied rest of that sentence being like a family history of stroke. And then instead, he started telling me about his family history, which was like difficult and traumatic. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm the worst person ever because I have to interrupt him and be like, that's not what I meant. And I felt so bad, man. I was like, this is.

Emily:
[9:01] Ooh.

Eva:
[9:02] Anyways, all I have to say is that I feel like these moments really illustrate for us that we're not the most talented people in the building for counseling.

Emily:
[9:12] No. No.

Eva:
[9:17] It's not us, babe.

Emily:
[9:18] No, they are paid boatloads more than us, probably. Yeah.

Eva:
[9:23] And they are the neuropsych team. or if you don't have one of those, go talk to the social worker and hopefully they have time. Unless you're at a sniffing, which is because they probably don't have time. And I'm so sorry in advance. Anyways, so we have two papers today. They're actually by the same research team, Jerry Hopner and Aspen Townsend. I hope I said Hopner right. And there's an E in there, an unexpected E. And these articles actually build on each other. So we're going to cover them together. And I got to say, I think I could just read the titles and then end the episode. Because they kind of say it all. Emily, could you read them for us?

Emily:
[10:06] Paper 1, A Survey of Counseling Training and Practices Among United States Speech-Language Pathologists Working in Adult Rehabilitation Context. I love a very direct title.

Eva:
[10:19] I know, right? Paper 2 is Counseling Practices of Speech-Language Pathologists Working with aphasia. Semicolon, I did not have adequate training in actual counseling strategies. What a great pair of papers. A survey. The results. I'm not ready.

Emily:
[10:43] It was great. I saw this thing online yesterday where it was like, how do other jobs have this whole introductory period of this is how you do the job this is policies procedures you get a week or two to follow people and for us they're like you have learned everything you're ever going to need in grad school right get to work what say what now like i simulated counseling strategies with eva that's not the same thing she wasn't mean to me

Eva:
[11:22] Oh, man, when we had that unit in grad school where we did a evaluation simulation with other students, with younger students within the program. And so we got to be the actors of somebody being evaluated. I should have gotten an Emmy, man. I cried. I had a fake aphasia moment with word finding over my kids' names. And then cried and was like, this isn't OK. I can't remember my kids' names. And they were like, oh, it's OK. And I was like, oh, you think it's OK? You're.

Emily:
[12:02] Not the one

Eva:
[12:03] Who's not going to be able to talk to them. And oh, man, I went all in, completely derailed the evaluation. I felt like I gave them the most realistic life experience previous to graduating they will ever get.

Emily:
[12:17] Oh, man, I'm glad I didn't have you, Iba. We're in the same class. Yeah. So what did they actually say about how unprepared we are? Like raw carrots?

Eva:
[12:28] Actually. Yeah, right. That is a deep cut joke. Go back to previous episodes to learn about the raw carrot joke. All right. I'm not going to straight up tell you. I'm going to make you work for this one a little bit. I'm going to give you a few stats from the paper. And you're going to have to guess the number before I tell you. Ready?

Emily:
[12:50] I guess

Eva:
[12:54] Okay, so they surveyed 93 SLPs working in rehab settings from across the U.S. Question one, what percentage do you think actually had taken a counseling course as a graduate student?

Emily:
[13:08] I thought a counseling course was a requirement, so I'm going to say 100, but if it's not, I'll be surprised.

Eva:
[13:16] Turns out, you're wrong. That's what I thought, too, because I took a counseling class. I thought it was required. Turns out that might have been an elective. It was 47 percent, so less than half.

Emily:
[13:26] It was not an elective. I would not have chosen that one. I don't even think I would have thought about it if it wasn't a required course. I mean, I guess go NYU for making it a required course.

Eva:
[13:38] Yeah, right? Next, here's the follow-up of that 40 percent. Most, about 80 percent, took their counseling class inside their actual SLP program. So for the people who did not take a dedicated counseling course, what percentage was at least, quote, embedded somewhere in their other coursework, like not like just not as its own class?

Emily:
[14:05] I would say... Let's go 20, because I bet, if anything, it was like a small sentence about counseling, like, but not counseling counseling.

Eva:
[14:20] All right. So this one was actually a little more generous than your guess. It was 42 percent.

Emily:
[14:23] I'm so bad at this game every time.

Eva:
[14:27] Less than half got some exposure. They said, you know, basically, I came into contact with counseling during my regular courses. So, I mean, the issue there is it's teacher dependent, right? Your teacher has to be choosing to integrate counseling concepts.

Emily:
[14:43] All right.

Eva:
[14:44] Only two questions left. You're doing great. What percentage of practicing SLPs had not taken a continuing ed or additional counseling training after grad school?

Emily:
[14:54] I'm going to say zero. I don't think that anyone had even thought about counseling immediately after grad school. They're just happy to be done.

Eva:
[15:04] Yeah, that's kind of the vibe. 66% had not taken any counseling, continuing education, or additional training and counseling as practicing clinicians. So basically, two out of three speech pathologists haven't gotten any additional training work. So sign up for CEUs, y'all. Very last question, Emily. Are you ready?

Emily:
[15:28] No, because I suck at this game, but go ahead.

Eva:
[15:31] I'll stop integrating this game after this episode. That's probably a lie. I think the reveals are really fun.

Emily:
[15:38] You just like to mess with me.

Eva:
[15:41] Across all training, grad school, continuing ed, everything combined, what percentage of respondents had gotten zero hands-on training or practice in counseling? Key phrase here being hands-on.

Emily:
[15:57] I would literally say none. Nobody got hands-on training. I'm going three answers at zero. What do I lose?

Eva:
[16:08] 75% had no hands-on training. So three out of four SLPs have never actually had any practice in counseling skills.

Emily:
[16:18] Oh, I guess my answer of that should have been 100% of people had zero training. Yeah.

Eva:
[16:24] Yeah, there you go. You had to flip the concept around. Yeah. So not inspiring.

Emily:
[16:30] Terrible.

Eva:
[16:32] I can't even say.

Emily:
[16:33] You prepped me for this question three out of four. You were like being very generous in my script here. So that's none out of none. Okay, so the paper also says most respondents had no training in specific counseling techniques at all. So it's not just a no practice, it's often a no technique either.

Eva:
[16:59] Yeah, the only technique I've developed for myself when a patient is getting, like pretty emotional, specifically with crying, I just like offer to hold a hand and they say no and sometimes they say yes. And in either case, I feel like it helps us move through the moment. They either kind of like, no, I'm okay and are able to come back to the session or they say yes, they hold my hand, they cry a little bit and then we move on later on. But anyways, not a taught technique.

Emily:
[17:28] Like, yeah, is that I mean, I normally I have that rolling desk and I just keep tissues on it. So I'll give him a tissue. And so important if it's pertinent, like we can, you know, chat about it or I'll ask like a different question. That's, you know, kind of off topic or random just to get out of there.

Eva:
[17:52] Yeah anyways i found all this pretty wild because counseling as i said earlier is literally one of the eight recognized pillars of clinical practice for slps so like what are we all doing team.

Emily:
[18:02] Yeah exactly and the authors don't mince words about it either they say rehab slp's actual readiness to implement counseling is suspect suspect jinx i mean given how thin both the coursework and hands-on practice are it's not i mean that is not that's not that's not an off-key critique like that's pretty on point it's us

Eva:
[18:30] Yeah okay so that was pretty much all from the first paper emily can you get us started on the next one.

Emily:
[18:37] Yeah yeah a few big themes here first Confidence is really domain-specific. SLPs feel totally solid doing aphasia-specific communication work, but the second the conversation turns to grief, identity, depression, or relationship strain, that confidence disappears. The paper actually separates educational counseling, like the explaining the diagnosis, the plan, where people feel fine, from the psychosocial adjustment counseling. That's where people feel lost.

Eva:
[19:11] Yeah, that's where we start to lose our ground. And that totally tracks with the training numbers. You cannot feel confident in a skill you were never actually trained to execute.

Emily:
[19:21] Exactly. The other themes were perspective taking, so clinicians doing this effortful, on-the-fly, empathy work without a real framework, scope of practice, and referrals. So that's, I guess, Eva, what you kind of propped us up at the beginning of this episode with a lot of uncertainty about where the line is between can I sit with this, do I need to refer out, And then SLP self-care, holding space for other people's grief week after week without training or support and what that costs the clinician.

Eva:
[19:56] Yeah, I've been seeing a lot of articles coming up about like secondary trauma or, basically the intensity of having a job where what you hear every day all day, is the difficult situation that other people are going through. And that's not just your patient, right? Like, I currently have a patient who is, you know, in her 50s, completely independent, employed, dating. She just had a massive stroke. Cannot talk at all. Cannot walk. We have no idea if she'll ever be able to work again. And now her daughter is the one who's stepping up and she's like in her 20s. So we're not just dealing with our patients' experience, but also their family members who are coming in and asking us all these questions because they're stressed. Like, there's a lot of big feelings happening.

Emily:
[20:49] Mm-hmm.

Eva:
[20:52] Anyway, so we do know that counseling matters, and they hit these moments constantly, not occasionally, but we're improvising. The papers phrase it as they lack intentionality and specialized training. So it's not that we're not trying, it's just that we're not professionals. Sad. You don't say. Yeah. Academic training gets called out in the article as inadequate, both in scope, there's not enough of it, and instructional method. Even what's covered isn't taught in a way that, like, builds real skills. And then, as we mentioned earlier, the post-academic training, when people could find it, rated it as, like, actually useful. Yeah. If you do want to take a CEU, the post-academic training most people did find was supportive. So the problem isn't, the problem is access. It's not value. When people can get the training, they like it.

Emily:
[21:56] Right. I'm thinking about whenever I finished grad school and how much money goes into paying for the license, paying for everything else, paying for, and then, I mean, you're finally working. But now you have all of these patients and really not a whole lot of places to turn. So the last thing you're trying to do is a CEU on counseling. Like that was not even anywhere near my brain. So i think that that is probably so genuinely important so genuinely helpful if you have the time and bandwidth to add another thing onto your your caseload but i i'm calling out our institutions this should be a required portion of our course load i mean 47 percent of people not required to take a counseling course when we deal with such heavy topics is a disservice, honestly.

Eva:
[22:59] Yeah. Oh, love it when Emily goes off on something. I'm always, I'm always off. A disservice, y'all. I wanted to share some questions from another paper, Counseling in Speech-Language Pathology, Perspectives and Experiences of Speech-Language Pathologists in India. Are you? Because I thought they were really.

Emily:
[23:20] What? I was going, are you pulling it, Emily? Because you, because I.

Eva:
[23:25] I know. I totally called you out the other day when you had a bajillion papers. And here I am pulling in three. Anyways, this paper, I'm not talking about the whole thing, but there was just, there was a chart. You know how we love a chart of questions that were part of what they based their assessments on. And I thought it would be really cute if maybe we answered them together.

Emily:
[23:57] Okay.

Eva:
[23:59] Because I'm always just trying to bond with you. I know. So all the questions begin, how often do you, and then the rest of the questions. So you take it away.

Emily:
[24:10] Okay. How often do you ask your client or the client's families to ask about any doubts or questions if they have any?

Eva:
[24:22] Yeah, so I know that I do this at discharge. I always ask, you know, hey, this is our time to review your stay. Do you have any questions or concerns about, you know, doing this independently? But admittedly, I do not ask that often during the course of like their plan of care. How about you?

Emily:
[24:45] I love going to care conference meetings for this specific reason. And I feel like when I first started out, I was so apprehensive about my own skills that I was like, oh, I can't talk to anybody about the treatment I'm providing for their mom who has dementia. Like, they're going to be like, so confused. Why am I doing these things? Or I don't want to talk to someone, their family, if I'm putting them on a puree diet. They probably hate me. But the more I practiced and the more I was like putting myself out there and asking questions like, what are your concerns and doing the like really putting myself out to the family? I feel like they're really receptive and wanting feedback and wanting to ask questions and wanting, you know, more involvement and were interested in the services. I guess I had so much self-doubt that I doubted that the families would care enough about my services to even talk to me about it. But I feel more confident in my own practice that I do do this often now, but it took me a few years to feel that way.

Eva:
[26:01] Yeah, that's awesome. Hey, way to grow as a clinician.

Emily:
[26:05] Just a little confident.

Eva:
[26:08] Okay, next one. How often do you refer your clients or family members to other professionals?

Emily:
[26:16] Yeah, I got in trouble once because I refer too many people to GI.

Eva:
[26:22] I'm like, stop talking to GI.

Emily:
[26:24] I just called them the other day. Yeah, so I guess too much. There is times too because we have in our building I like this is a this is a specific service provider but it's like we have counseling services within our building and if conversation seems to be lingering on or they just are interested in just talking to me then I'll be like hey have you heard of the service that we have here and try and defer even if people are considering hospice. I'm like, hospice has all of these different things. I love referring other people.

Eva:
[27:02] And they hand out cool pens.

Emily:
[27:04] All the time. Squishies. What about you, Eva? And squishies. How often are you referring clients or family members to other professionals?

Eva:
[27:12] I would say at one of my previous PRN jobs, I did not really have any access to therapy or social work for referrals. Um and so most of my referrals were just to, if it was going to be social work had to be like about plan of care discharge it was really not about feelings um and then to my teammates who, on the rehab team like actually that's a great question or you're it sounds like you're feeling really frustrated about your mobility let me refer pt to help you talk about that because you know they're at the actual professionals. But now, you know, at the hospital, I'm, I hand out neuropsych referrals like they are candy. I'm like, counseling for you, counseling for you, because whether or not you think so, you just experience a very like severe, likely life altering event. And on top of that, staying in a hospital is an invasive and intense experience. So I'm just like, anytime anyone mentions any sort of discomfort, I'm like, would you like to talk to one of our neuropsychologists about that?

Emily:
[28:23] No, that's probably why they gave you grief about it. They're like, you tell us to go to everybody's room all the time. Now you're having these conversations.

Eva:
[28:33] And now you're having feelings conversations. You chose the wrong degree, lady. No, they're a great team. Okay, what's the next one?

Emily:
[28:44] The next one. How often do you ask your client or your client's families to express what they feel about the condition? Oof.

Eva:
[28:53] I rarely ask people to express their feelings about their conditions. Ditto. I would say, yeah, I know. I never, well, I think part of that is like our job in that we have to accomplish certain specific therapeutic tasks to target the speech-related condition. And a lot of times if you open feelings, it's the can of worms. Like there is a chance you don't get back to what you're quote-unquote supposed to be doing. And so if it doesn't come up, I don't bring it up. But I will say if they are like frustrated or if they're aphasic and they're having trouble with their words and they're doing a lot of like erg or like fist shaking, I'll be like, yeah, it sucks.

Emily:
[29:41] You're not in that voice.

Eva:
[29:46] Yeah, I don't use like a puppet voice with my patients, but I try to do a lot of like emotional validation, reflection, if they are like. Sighing and look sad i'll be like oh is this are you feeling sad right now and just ask them and then validate it if yes um or if no be like oh how are you feeling because you look.

Emily:
[30:12] Sad yeah

Eva:
[30:13] Uh but no i would never i don't i don't open the box unless it seems like necessary in the situation.

Emily:
[30:22] Yeah i totally agree with you with the can of worms thing if it comes i've had a lot of apraxia patients lately and we'll do scripts where we say i have apraxia and this sucks or we'll we're yeah we're practicing like because i want to practice things that they need to say and apraxia is the worst it's it's just not it's just balls like nobody wants nobody wants it it sucks and i don't know so yeah like if that's the the most i'll go out and talk about feelings i did have like one patient the other day and it might be uh

Emily:
[31:10] Might save this story for another instance, but tell you anyways, even if we take it out, Eva. So I felt so bad. I was having one of my patients as an encephalopathy with ataxia, and there's just no more handwriting. And we were categorizing different words into similar things. And I was asking him to write down the items, and he just broke down crying. He said, I can't even write my name. And I felt so bad, but we got him like a picture so that he could color in his spirit animal. And I got my favorite nurse and I said, go give him a cigarette. He needs it. And I called it a day. Because like sometimes there's sometimes like it does come out and people are expressing themselves just fine. And it's totally off script. There's really nothing that we can do about it. But I don't know, get someone else. I don't discourage them from crying. I just kind of push them to do something different. I don't know.

Eva:
[32:18] Yeah, absolutely. Mom, kind of... You know, all these questions are related. But last one, how often do you ask your client or a client's family to rate or describe their emotional status?

Emily:
[32:31] I never ask a client's family to rate their emotion. I've never asked that. I do every so often I'll give somebody on my dementia caseload, like that my maintenance, a DemQOL, which is like a dementia something quality of life questionnaire and in that they are rating their emotional status like within the last week how have you felt about this how does your memory make you feel all of that kind of stuff so

Eva:
[33:05] Yeah send that to me i've never heard of that i yeah d-e-m-q-o-l.

Emily:
[33:10] D-e-m-q-o-l we can put it in that show thing too but um so in that i will ask them but outside of that i'm not typically asking them to rate or describe their emotional status because... I don't know. I feel like sometimes it's difficult to put an emotional status on a continuum, and especially if we're just asking to get a general check-in, like, how are we feeling today? Like, I'll say, what's up? How are you? But, like, not to rate or describe. What about you, Eva? Are you doing that?

Eva:
[33:49] I love that you're like, I mean, I'll say what's up, but I don't really want them to answer. No, I'm just kidding. I'm playing. I have worked on this battery analogy because, you know, our patients have a lot of ups and downs. They're also oftentimes very fatigued. And I'm like, where is your battery at? Like, are you fully charged? Are you ready to go? Are you almost on empty? Do you feel like you're heading towards empty? Because if you're heading towards empty, you know, I don't want you to crash. I want you to be able to get through the rest of your day. I'm certainly not the last thing that you have to accomplish, you know. So getting them to just be kind of aware of their energy levels, whether that's strictly related to fatigue or feeling sad or... Energized or whatever it is, is component to that. I don't really incorporate emotional feelings. I just kind of ask where they're at on their battery.

Emily:
[34:47] I mean, I bet that's important to, I mean, it's still, you're checking in and it is like a rating scale. Applying the research. Okay. So what does this actually mean at work, especially for those of us in skilled nursing or other adult rehab settings?

Eva:
[35:04] Well, a few things. First, if you're an SLP in the room and somebody starts to open up emotionally, you don't need to be their therapist. Like, seriously, don't be their therapist. You're not qualified. Don't do it. But you do need sort of a basic framework that you can operate on so you're not freezing up or deflecting or kind of shutting down their emotions. So it could be reflective listening, validating the emotion, and as you said, like knowing how to refer. Find out what's an appropriate resource for them.

Emily:
[35:36] And in the skilled nursing settings specifically, that referral piece matters a lot. You're often the person seeing the patient daily more than anyone else on the care team. So you may be the first to notice a mood or an adjustment issue. Knowing your facility's social work and behavioral health referral pathway before you need it is so huge.

Eva:
[35:57] Yeah. And also just normalize that discomfort with yourself and your team. Like if you feel unprepared for this. Apparently the research says that's normal this is not a personal failing and that reframe alone might like help you change how you show up for it in that moment.

Emily:
[36:18] And for supervisors and cfs build in actual practice not just reading role play difficult conversations debrief real ones

Eva:
[36:27] Seriously debrief real things see how you could have you know responded differently in that moment and admit if you maybe like took it wrong it's okay do better for the next patient, so anyways the fix for the problem for this problem and like the slp world isn't a complicated concept it's just like go take a class maybe two go get some experiential training in grad school some continuing eds like, Again, refer patients, but just get out there and get some experience.

Emily:
[37:01] Right. And then until next time, you guys.

Eva:
[37:04] We're wrapping it up. This has been Speech Talk. And it's your weekly reminder that feelings and phonemes are both a part of the job.

Emily:
[37:11] Ooh, love it. That's a good one. You've been listening to Speech Talk.

Eva:
[37:18] Thank you, everyone, for coming to listen to our research book club. Until next time, keep learning and leading with research.

Emily:
[37:24] If you like this episode and you want to give us some love, please rate us on your favorite podcasting app. Leave a review and tell the world, because as podcasters, our love language is in positive affirmations.

Eva:
[37:35] And if you like listening to us, you may like more podcasts from our network, Human Content, like How to Be Patient, Bendy Bodies, Knock Knock High with the Glock and Fleckens, and Psychiatry Boot Camp. If you have a research topic you want us to cover, or you have episode comments, clinical experience you want to share, or just want to send us some love letters, send us an email at hello at speechtalkpod.com.

Emily:
[38:00] If you want even more speech talk content, check out our website at speechtalkpod.com, where you can find all of our resources we made for you, copies of articles covered, and Eva's blog following these topics and more.

Eva:
[38:13] We're your hosts, Eva Johnson and Emily Brady.

Emily:
[38:15] Our editor and engineer is Andrew Sims.

Eva:
[38:18] Our music is by Omar Benzvi.

Emily:
[38:20] Our executive producers are Aaron Corney, Rob Goldman, and Shanti Brooke.

Eva:
[38:25] To learn about Speech Talk's program disclaimer and ethics policy, verification and licensing terms, and HIPAA release terms, you can go to speechtalkpod.com slash disclaimers.

Emily:
[38:37] Speech Talk is a proud member of the Human Content Podcast Network.

Eva:
[38:50] You've been shocked at.